Comments on: QA 4. (May 08) How to stop doing what you don’t want to do (Or, how to be at one with oneself) http://filosofille.wordpress.com/2008/05/01/qa-4-may-08-how-to-stop-doing-what-you-don%e2%80%99t-want-to-do-or-how-to-be-at-one-with-oneself/ life and other surprises Thu, 03 Sep 2009 13:53:31 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Helen http://filosofille.wordpress.com/2008/05/01/qa-4-may-08-how-to-stop-doing-what-you-don%e2%80%99t-want-to-do-or-how-to-be-at-one-with-oneself/#comment-14 Helen Sun, 04 May 2008 14:06:04 +0000 http://filosofille.wordpress.com/?p=12#comment-14 Jennifer, Sounds good, but maybe we should get more specific? I can think of a variety of different sorts of behaviour someone could dislike themselves for doing (or not doing, as the case may be)... ... always being attracted to the "wrong" person ... not sticking up for oneself... or someone else ... attacking (verbally, physically) anyone who is weaker (maybe even oneself) ... buying too many things you can't afford ... drinking too much ... failing to get along somehow It seems that, if it were me, some of these contradictory or perverse behaviours are things I would want to stop doing and others I'd be happy to carry on with - without disliking it. I wonder: are habits just a bad idea in general? Mostly, I think, but not entirely. I wonder if I would distinguish, as you seem to, aggression and 'denial' (better: fear?) apart from desire? Dunno. Leon's comment about changing circumstances reminds me of a quote I found recently, along the lines of "Our vices come and go in their own time, and then we take credit for having mastered them." Ha. Jennifer,

Sounds good, but maybe we should get more specific? I can think of a variety of different sorts of behaviour someone could dislike themselves for doing (or not doing, as the case may be)…

… always being attracted to the “wrong” person

… not sticking up for oneself… or someone else

… attacking (verbally, physically) anyone who is weaker (maybe even oneself)

… buying too many things you can’t afford

… drinking too much

… failing to get along somehow

It seems that, if it were me, some of these contradictory or perverse behaviours are things I would want to stop doing and others I’d be happy to carry on with – without disliking it.

I wonder: are habits just a bad idea in general? Mostly, I think, but not entirely.

I wonder if I would distinguish, as you seem to, aggression and ‘denial’ (better: fear?) apart from desire? Dunno.

Leon’s comment about changing circumstances reminds me of a quote I found recently, along the lines of “Our vices come and go in their own time, and then we take credit for having mastered them.” Ha.

]]> By: Helen http://filosofille.wordpress.com/2008/05/01/qa-4-may-08-how-to-stop-doing-what-you-don%e2%80%99t-want-to-do-or-how-to-be-at-one-with-oneself/#comment-13 Helen Sun, 04 May 2008 06:41:07 +0000 http://filosofille.wordpress.com/?p=12#comment-13 Received the following note from Leon Redler; posted here with his permission: Hi, Helen. Re your: “…Realise. Stop. And turn.”: Perhaps for many of us, much of the time, Stop comes *first*, or at least it helps to stop to realise… whether we consciously intentionally stop or whether circumstances (whatever they are) force us to stop. Like at the (old) railway crossings: Stop, Look and Listen. If the train is coming, it gives me a chance to realise that is the case and decide to wait until it passes before I continue… or not. Or even decide to turn around! I might have to slow down, almost to a stop of sorts, to give a time/space for…aha! or just ha! Ah, so! Wishing you all manner of (continued) good turns and good turnings, Leon Received the following note from Leon Redler; posted here with his permission:

Hi, Helen.
Re your: “…Realise. Stop. And turn.”: Perhaps for many of us, much of the time, Stop comes *first*, or at least it helps to stop to realise… whether we consciously intentionally stop or whether circumstances (whatever they are) force us to stop.
Like at the (old) railway crossings: Stop, Look and Listen.
If the train is coming, it gives me a chance to realise that is the case and decide to wait until it passes before I continue… or not. Or even decide to turn around!
I might have to slow down, almost to a stop of sorts, to give a time/space for…aha! or just ha! Ah, so!

Wishing you all manner of (continued) good turns and good turnings,
Leon

]]> By: Jennifer http://filosofille.wordpress.com/2008/05/01/qa-4-may-08-how-to-stop-doing-what-you-don%e2%80%99t-want-to-do-or-how-to-be-at-one-with-oneself/#comment-12 Jennifer Fri, 02 May 2008 18:25:02 +0000 http://filosofille.wordpress.com/?p=12#comment-12 Your construction—-realise; stop; and turn—-mirrors a slogan or maxim contained in a body of Buddhist teaching known as lojong, or "mind training". The slogan is "Practise the three difficulties". These are (1) recognising the habitual reactivity as it arises (a doozy, as you say, but no more so than 2 or 3, in my experience); (2) doing something different; and (3) making this practice a lifestyle—-i.e., refraining from getting yanked back into the old pattern. I'd like to expand a little on your suggested perceptual shift, "stop disliking it". There are actually behavioural supports for this approach, again, from the Buddhist perspective. The suggestion, in this case, is to go beyond simply not disliking any given experience to actually embracing it. The notion here is that since it is what it is, it deserves respect and attention. It has something of value to impart, and that something is embedded in the energy driving it (in this case, desire; but it could as easily be aggression or denial). The only way to tap that energy as a resource is to drop down below our stories about like/dislike and feel the experience as raw, nonconceptual. What say The Philosopher about that? Your construction—-realise; stop; and turn—-mirrors a slogan or maxim contained in a body of Buddhist teaching known as lojong, or “mind training”. The slogan is “Practise the three difficulties”. These are (1) recognising the habitual reactivity as it arises (a doozy, as you say, but no more so than 2 or 3, in my experience); (2) doing something different; and (3) making this practice a lifestyle—-i.e., refraining from getting yanked back into the old pattern.

I’d like to expand a little on your suggested perceptual shift, “stop disliking it”. There are actually behavioural supports for this approach, again, from the Buddhist perspective. The suggestion, in this case, is to go beyond simply not disliking any given experience to actually embracing it. The notion here is that since it is what it is, it deserves respect and attention. It has something of value to impart, and that something is embedded in the energy driving it (in this case, desire; but it could as easily be aggression or denial). The only way to tap that energy as a resource is to drop down below our stories about like/dislike and feel the experience as raw, nonconceptual.

What say The Philosopher about that?

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